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Ask your Dealer, or call Hodgdon), has a Cowboy Load section, (near the center fold), that lists data for about all SASS calibers. Ive loaded some wadcutters to the point of being flush with the case mouth and big lead bullets almost to the front of the cylinder. Loath and Loathe are different words that mean different things. Read my very long thread about "DR loads that don't suck". 4.) Yes I do have a few of the older high quality classic revolvers not the current made Cast Iron garbage that is being vomited out today. Rules say (e) Ammunition- Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! I reload a 3 CA Bulldog in .44 with 200 gr wadcutters, to recreate the Man Stopper loads of long ago. I carried a lightly customized 4 inch heavy barrel model 10 for years, with a black cerakote job. Using higher pressure loads will wear brass out faster and it will become brittle with time. Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 9 customer ratings. How does WST compare to Bullseye powder? The 125 Hornady XTP, a jacketed hollow point bullet that can easily handle 1500 fps velocities. I am loath to shoot several cylinders of standard pressure/velocity .38 Special 125 grain bullets out of a Smith and Wesson Model 642 revolver (or similar). I had enough, The Model 1911 pistol will officially turn 100 years old on May 5, 2011. The proof pressure MAP specified by SAAMI is 29,500 psi for both rounds. 4.2 gr. 10 for a full cylinder. ammunition in the same gun enables that shooter to hunt larger game and to fend off beasts that snarl. Note: More and more test are conducted with all rounds fired with powder UP against the primer for each shot, or DOWN on the bullet for each shot, then gently bring to horizontal to shoot. 2 and No. He has taught and been responsible for numerous advanced skills and weapons courses within multiple organizations. I use 2.8-3.0 grains of Bullseye or AA#2 with 158 gr. Jacketed bullets are not legal for Distinguished Revolver. .38 Special +P (Alliant Reloaders Guide) Warning! If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. Below, are three loaded rounds. Testing out some bullseye with 125 berry's bullets.. BrianEnos.com You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? I dunno. Hence the lack of load data from just about anybody. Have not confirmed the difference with a chronograph. The 38 Special Ball round was designed a long time ago to comply with specifications laid down for ammo that was : 1) Compliant with the Hague Accords of 1907 in regard to "unnecessarily" injurious ammunition. My best group was .9 inch out of a Model 15. Recoil is subjective and I feel no difference between that and an 750-775 fps load. Thanks to all for the info. Bullseye or Titegroup cover 90% or more of my .38 Special loadings. Its hard to find those swaged SWCs and hollow point bullets anyone; it seems everyone is only interested in hard cast for velocity and penetration. The .38 with careful selection of components can be the cats as* for almost any shooter. Don't know of any bullets like that. Maybe its just me, but having that tiny bit of extra length and weight in the cylinder that I was never going to use just kinda bothered me. The average street punk today has more firepower than the Russian Army did in WWII and trying to re-load a revolver in a fire fight is the best way to commit suicide that I could ever think of. I am using this load in some .38 specials. I could knock out a pretty substantial chunk of my shooting needs with only these three loads. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. No sh!t. You gotta try the S&W M342 Airlight TI. But you guys need to practice more. Best to start a little low, and work up slowly with a chrono, though. Only the Model 60 sometimes have factory installed grips that are not worthless. If you havent taken a look at what the .38 Special offers, youre selling yourself short. Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. Since it hit the market 103 years ago, it has been a staple for most handloaders and the backbone of most accuracy loads in the popular calibers. I thought about trying 2.5 gr. * All PLUS P loads for guns designed for it (20,000 PSI), (Cowboy loads shot in 7 1/2 bbl.revolver no need to reduce), ALL THESE LOADS ARE PLUS P, SPECIAL HOT 21,000 PSI. I just got some clays which I heard was very clean burning compare to bullseye. There is almost no recoil and the student can increase power level when they feel ready using the same gun. Anything goes with bullets. 6.) I'm seating to what's in my loading manual. Smith & Wesson Model 27 .357 Magnum (because no 6-inch Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver was on hand). This is not loaded 9mm ammo. Best and most realistic article about the .38 special ive found. I make a habit of counting the number of reloads I make by keeping a tally of primer and bullet boxes. [.38 Special] is a very versatile and useful round. Reducing consumables (and therefore cost) that much more is definitely appealing to me. These are light and easy to shoot. Traditionally, the max SAAMI pressures were: 38 S&W 14,500 I fired 3 Remington 125 SJHP 357s from a 340 and thought i had nerve damage in my hand. head I use 3.2gr. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). But this piece isnt about the gun, but rather the cartridge. Easiest way is casting lines and a sprue mark on nose or base. Therefore, .38 Special +P ammo can be as much as 17.5 percent hotter than standard .38 Special. .38 Special: What Ive Learned After 20,000 Rounds, Stacey Abrams Whopper: No one believes in eroding the Second Amendment, Scottsdale Home Owner Uses Shotgun to Stop Naked Home Invader Caught in His Childs Room [VIDEO], Liberty Ammunitions Innovative Personal Defense Rounds are Lighter, Go Faster, and Hit Harder. My point being is I used the resources I have, looked elsewhere (The High Road, The Firing Line), and wanted to try here. Most modern revolvers chambered for .38 SPL are rated to +P, so there is room for error, but care must still be taken. ES 27 SD 12 Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose MV 892 fps ME 230 ft./lbs. For example, a Glock 17 shot the HAP into 1.35 inches and the FMJ into 2.2 inches at 25 yards. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. Accurates No. 10,870. : 1,266 1,472 Press. In the 1950s, 60s. A Tyler T grip would have helped here, but is incompatible w/ factory grips. I was hoping I could use this combo to make use of available components. These were one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. WST is less dense than BE. I have a long way to go before I'm ready to compete, but enjoy plinking and hand loading. The manufacturing process of swaged bullets requires relatively soft lead for two reasons. BTW, I wish I had any one of those three revolvers today. I will start ouy at the minimum velocity then. Or does the CMP make the rules for DR, and the NRA admins it? Modern .38 spl std HP load is more than enough, dont over think it. Unsurpassed for .45 ACP target loads. The 357 magnum about 45,000 psi and the std 38 special about 17,000 psi. NULLI SECUNDUS. I am aware of the plated bullet limitations on BE accuracy and am more interested in them for their "plinkability". I found the plated wadcutters to have NO accuracy. Minnesota. Thanks very much to LarryinTX for that! My sq. Posted: 4/17/2014 10:53:09 AM EST. Unique was a sooty powder so Ive switched to W231. I buy 158 SWCHP all the time.my main bullet. DR loads (158gr Remington swaged LSWC over 3.6gr AA#2 in Winchester .38 Special cases) I shoot American eagle, remington factory,remington umc, and mag tech. 2.7 GR WST IS TOO LIGHT FOR THE 50 YD LINE. I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. I was just trying to get a general consensus of what other guys were using. SASS# 85224. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. 1995-2022. And it isnt my first rodeo with a J-frame. How can I tell if they are cast or swaged? Ive been shooting them for 50 years. Bullets are .357 for jacketed and .358 for lead in diameter. I dont see much conversation on these specifics but I think Its all about the size of the explosion in the chamber. I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. This too is useful information. Content . They are low because of swaged bullets. Rookie, back in the day when I was reloading I went through a 3 round butt L. Horton special model 24, a 4 24 and a 4 624. I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. ES 56 SD 24 PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. (For those who would. Thats what the Cavalry Board asked for over a century ago, and thats what weve got. was a breeze. . Powders include IMR, Hodgdon, Alliant, Vihtavuori, Winchester, Accurate Classics go well together: circa 1909 S&W .38 Special and traditional 148-grain wadcutter load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Dont know where #1 Buckshot can be found, but the Speer shot cups and UNIQUE powder currently easy enough to find. Does anyone have experience with loading WST for 125 gr plates bullets or a place to start the research/testing? Soft shooting. : 1.475" Powder: 6.0 gr 6.9 gr Vel. Great gun with the best factory double action trigger Ive ever shot. of Bullseye with Lee's 125gr RN mold in a 38 special with so-so accuracy. 1.455 in. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. 4.0 gr. Bullseye is a little smoky, a lot sooty, and has a distinct odor. So it is my gut feeling that Winchester found it to be touchy in smaller calibers like 38 special and 9mm Luger. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. Winchesters 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. The trigger has smoothed out over time. Me too! 3.) The use of .38 +P+ level (25,000 27,500 psi) type reloads, in .357 brass. Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . Anyway, you are probably right that the revolver guys trend towards the older end of the spectrum, but I think some of the younger guys are starting to catch on to the magic of wheel guns. That sounds. Over 20,000 rounds, Ive found that theres rarely a wrong way to do .38 SPL. (This is prevalent among most aftermarket designs- they are smallest in the longest, strongest finger area, and largest at the bottom pinkie area.). I keep it under my seat in case I get an unwanted intruder and I cant get to my IWB semi auto. YouTube has plenty of reloading channels or the Reloaders Network webpage has more info as well. Maybe its just my age, but I may never shoot a 38 again after discovering the 32. (bullseyeforum.net). The only way to shoot both 9mm and .38 special is to have two separate cylinders timed to the revolver. You may end up with one "not" clearing the barrel. When you say "not working" can you be more specific? Hollow points are not. Hodgdon's Basic Reloading Manual, (The free one, available for the asking. I dont bother polishing my .38 brass because I just dont let it fall in the mud or dirt. This load is in the general velocity bracket with most generic or bulk box 115-grain loads and zings over my chronograph at 1,125 to 1,140 fps from a Glock 17, depending on bullet style. The design of this modern revolver makes the SW guns seem archaic. There is one good reason to use WST. My Hornady 11th edition shows this for 38 Special 158 gr lead RN, LSWCHP and LSWC. Cartridge : .38 Special (SAAMI)Bullet : .357, 125, FP Rainier Useable Case Capaci: 20.320 grain H2O = 1.319 cm Cartridge O.A.L. Different colors can be used to identify different loads and since bottom of each bullet is also powder coated, there is less lead dispersed in the air at the shooting range. In terms of thousands of rounds of range practice, though, that is a definite no-go in my book. Damn. Three in particular proved as good as their longstanding reputations would indicate. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. The swaged bullets are soft enough that they expand even at mild velocities where a JHP or hard cast cant. I here from quite a few that 3.5 gr of bullseye is a good load for 158 gr lead Bullets for bullseye shooting. 158 gr. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. But still nothing under 3.5". 110gr JHP! Your previous content has been restored. 5 are good choices. Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. My Dad has advanced arthritis and could not longer easily work his auto loaders. Wife handled it with no problem, those 5 Super Vel had been in the gun probably over 5 years by then, she bought it to CARRY, not to shoot, if she needed to fire it to save her life it would be fine. Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. It has been many years since I used a Lee Loader and a wooden mallet to reload 8mm Mauser. Both are excellent fight stoppers. From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. The Lyman is handy for sizing or priming while youre watching a movie. The Model 19 is fine with .38s but mildly uncomfortable with .357s. I'm looking for some recipes for 38 special for a 125 grain copper plated (like Berry's) flat point bullet using Unique, Bullseye, or W231. These two can cover the entire performance spectrum up to .38+P. Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. I don't know what bullets you have, but Berry's recommends per their website to use hard cast data for their plated bullets. 3 gr of WST in a 38 spl case with 125 gr plated bullet is a very light load. I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special. Thanks for the guidance and suggestions. My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. WAP, WMR, WSF, WSL, 760, 748, 231 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div. are you loading .38 special brass, or .357 magnum brass? Has anyone loaded 38 special with these compoments? I get 1000 fps with this load. Posted March 2, 2013. (Cowboy Action) 38 Special (Cowboy Action) 38-40 Win. 7.) A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, I'm looking for an accurate load using 125gr bullets. The load is a great learning tool in .45 for beginner and experienced alike. Honestly, plated bullets won't give you the level of accuracy needed for bullseye competition, even at 25 yards. Only if you see more than one load, is it less than maximum. WST is a good powder for a very specialized load. Bought my small handed wife a 642. It doesnt appear like there is much of an advantage in using WST with lighter weight bullets. WC, 158 gr. This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. In my time spent with the .38, I have come to greatly appreciate it for what it is and does. more weight than the similar size CA .44 Bulldog, were available, a lot more people would also like the .44 spl. It is easy to load in progressive presses and has commercially available options from virtually all modern manufacturers. ,I looked at Speer data, nothing there. : 13,300 16,800 Starting Powder: 6.0 gr Starting Velocity: 1,266 The Charter Arms .44 models are potential CCWs, but are too light to properly handle the .44 spl. 110gr JHP! The bullets are seated flush in the case. Recoil was so nasty that I quit after five shots and saved the rest of the box for my 6 Model 19 .357. There are many fun uses for buckshot. +P? Notify me of follow-up comments by email. I have tried several different grips before finding the one that worked for me. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. Do you folks think a start at 3.0 gr and work up from there with a 125 gr bullet would be a safe load. .38 Special is a lot more comfortable in a service size revolver like my Model 10. Great gun. In fact, Hornady's handloading manual includes .357-inch bullets in the load data for the .38 Super, specifically 125-grain and 140-grain XTP bullets, along with .355-inch bullets, and their one remaining .356-inch bullet, the 125-grain HAP. Most starting .357 reloading powder levels will fall in this .38 +P+ type reload, and the powder being used can be selected (faster or slower) based on barrel length. Prefer to use the CT model 305 laser grips in lieu of S&W grips. That revolver is aluminum and cannot handle the pressure of 9MM. In a nutshell & I mean very short version. . Have a Tritium sight and laser on it to boot. Lucky me. Load shot well out of a variety of service handguns. IMHO .38 special is just fine for self defense, but just not enough to crack engine blocks. Years back, for indoor matches I teamed the heavier S&W Model 28 with 3.4 grains of the same powder and bullet in . I have one that has been loaded about sixty times and it is still in use today. I'm new to reloading, starting off with a single stage Lee press reloading .38 special and .357 magnum with Lee's 4 die carbide set. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. No more lead in the barrel or on my hands. It is also one of the most pleasurable loads a shooter can touch off. Everyone here who has tried plated bullets including myself, have had disappointing results in accuracy. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:00 am, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:36 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:46 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:45 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:50 pm. Any hotter and we get into a recoil issue. Classic loads are economical.